Forum #3

Mayad nga paglalawasen kanateng tanan! – FORUM DAY kada Martes.

Anono ang maliag i kon i’ dia? Maman ang ateng lugar kung sadin pwidi kita ag patad i’ maski anonong ena-ena’ agod mi maarampangan kitang sa mayad-ayad. Pariho’ ang sports, politics, religion, money talk, horoscopre, cooking, travel, ideas, ig marake pa, maski anono basta ara lamang mag solicit i’ kwarta’.

Pademdem lamang, nga ang Politics asta’ Religion ay dorong ka init ig mabegat nga issues dan animan be responsible enough for your own THREAD and RESPONSE. (out si nabs dian)

Isara pa, maski pira ka issues indong i post ara’ kaso’, maski pira ka responses indong i post ara’ kaso’, maski mag vandals kamo pa ara’ kaso’, maski beken i’ related imong response ara kaso’, basta demdemen indo lamang nga indi ag raet indong leba kung beken i’ masamet ang indong paen ig kung ara’ mi mag paoyon sa indong maliag i kon o matabo’ tenged nga iba-iba’ ang ateng paneleng sa isarang bagay.

Sa mataged nga barita’, kamo maman ang maga pa post digi sa forum nga maga lua kada Martes kung anono mang issues ang indong aliagan, buaten indo lamang nga midio aga pang alok-alok indong post agod ma ingganyo’ ang iba nga mag partisipar.

Pasamoro?” ~kablita indo lamang ang comment link sa post nga dia tapos ipatad indo lamang ang indong mga balon nga ena-ena’.

10 thoughts on “Forum #3

  1. Bunsawik

    Isarang pakiman lang…Ayamo kabay dadi ang karake ren ang lalaking membro ang “UHAW”..{Union of husbands afraid of wives”}. Dya kuno isara ren sa ing alinan. Ang unang tyempo, tyempo pa ang world war 2 duro kunong “millions”mga husbands ang ing padara sa gyera..Animan ang mga wives aregesan mag trabaho..Matapos ang gyera pag uli ang mga husbands sa andang mga balay ang mga wives den ang employed.Obserbasyon lang kung ang babae mas mabael ang sweldo,ang indong ing istaran anang investment,ang kotse ana ra.matas anang posisyon sa trabaho ig mabael ang sweldo
    tapos ang lalaki maman ang asasala ig aga obra sa pamalay balay?Sirurado qualified enged sa “UHAW”….HaeHaeHae…


  2. Bunsawik

    Banz maampang kita…Kung ang wife mabaskeg ang personalidad sa pamalay balay ig tana maman ang midyo atutuman sa pamilya tapos ang tatay maman ang midyo intimidated sa anang asawa mi epekto kabay sa mga bata?Paki sabat lang….


  3. palaminco

    Bunsawik @1. Kung ang lalaki ara trabaho ig agasarig lamang sa anang asawa, mas agatun ang tawag nga “CHEMIST” (Ke Misis Tanan) kanana, hae hae.


  4. Bunsawik

    Tama kaw dian Palaminco…Pag ang misis maeseg ang mga batang lalaki malemek ang aga lua..{no offense} muro ang authoridad nga dapat makikita sa lalaki sa babae akita ang mga bata..Problemang mabael sa U.S. labi pa ren da enged nga marake ang divorce duto..Marake ang mga bata nga ara ing baelan nga tatay sa andang kilid. Ako ag bael nga ara tatay sa akeng kilid dahil maaga napatay animan inde ko maelaman ang umpisa kung pasamuro ang role i ang isarang tatay..Dan problema i ang isarang padre de pamilya labi pa ren da enged kung tana pirme ing dadaegdaeg anang asawa…No offense sa mga babae..Ateng mga asawa dapat ing mamal pero ang leadeship kananten para enged akabase pwera lamang ang mga balo ron….Pasensia lang opinion lang….Ikorek indo ako lang kung ako mali….


  5. palaminco

    Durong ka sensitive nga issue dadi ang Gender Equality. Para mas masab ateng diskusion, ipost ko anay dagi:

    Below is a short BusinessWorld feature article on a recent Hour Asia presentation of Discovery Channel. It’s about a hidden society in China with a most peculiar social structure – a society where all work is done by women, there is free love (no marriages), and daughters and sons live with their families throughout their lives!

    Gender lessons from China’s Mosuo (Yellow Pad)
    Hazel Jean L. Malapit August 16, 2004

    Ms. Malapit is the Research Associate and Policy Analyst of Action for Economic Reforms.

    A recent story on the Discovery Channel show Hour Asia featured an unusual indigenous tribe of the Yunnan province of China, the Mosuo people. Two things make this tribe particularly interesting: First, in this tribe women do all the work – including physical labor. Men do little or nothing all day. Second, there are no marriages in this tribe. Consequently, they have no concept of “husband” or “father.”

    The Lugu Lake is home to the Mosuo people, one of China’s 56 ethnic
    groups. Hidden from the rest of China behind the Xiaoliang mountains, the Mosuo culture has evolved with little influence from its neighbors. Unlike the rest of China, where the one-child policy created nuclear families and a clear preference for male children, the Mosuo people live in extended families and prefer female children.

    Sexual freedom
    The most publicized aspect of the Mosuo culture however, is their sexual freedom – men and women can have as many lovers as they wish without legal restraints. Recently, Lugu Lake has become a popular tourist spot, particularly for men enticed by the fantasy of “free love.”

    The institution of marriage as we know it does not exist in the Mosuo
    culture. Instead, they practice “walking marriages,” where the man would visit the woman at night, and go home to his mother’s house in the morning. They can begin or end their relationship at any time, and are allowed as many lovers as they wish. There is no formality in these relationships and lovers never share common property, as all property is inherited by women. Children borne from such unions are raised by the mother’s family, and live their entire lives in their mother’s home. There are no social or economic responsibilities expected from the father.

    The Mosuo people find little reason to mix matters of survival and matters of the heart. For them, control over matters of property and the raising of children should remain in the hands of blood relatives, whose loyalty to the family is unquestionable. Thus, relationships are pursued out of love, without issues of money or property to complicate it. Contented couples stay together, and unhappy couples can go their separate ways. The absence of paternal relations has done away with domestic conflicts with in-laws, a common source of conflict in our society.

    Mosuo families are organized in maternal clans, with several generations living under one roof. The extended family is led by the matriarch, and leadership of the household is passed on to the most intelligent daughter.

    Economic decisions
    The matriarch makes all the economic decisions, dividing the work and the income of the household among its members. The curious thing about the division of labor, however, is that women do almost all the work, both productive (farming/fishing) and domestic work. Men work only twice a year, during extreme labor shortages.

    What is the quality of life of the Mosuo men? For many men in our society, a “walking marriage” is perhaps a dream come true. One anonymous male posted a message in the internet saying that all his friends want to join the Mosuo tribe when they found out that men can have multiple lovers with no social or economic responsibilities. But are Mosuo men really better off?

    Following standard consumption theory, the Mosuo men must have very high levels of satisfaction or utility considering the amount of leisure they enjoy. On the other hand, if we define well-being in terms of human functioning, as in Amartya Sen’s definition of the ability “to do” and “to be,” one might conclude that Mosuo men are clearly at a disadvantage, since they have little control over their lives.

    Gender bias
    Feminist economists have argued that the gender bias we observe in our societies today reflects the power structure between men and women. Perhaps the arguments put forward by feminist economists are better appreciated when the tables are turned. In the Mosuo tribe, it is obvious that because women have control over resources, they can decide who gets what and enjoy a much higher social status than men.

    In fact, because there is little conflict and therefore little bargaining
    in Mosuo households, it exemplifies Gary Becker’s “altruistic” family model. In Becker’s model, an altruistic dictator (the matriarch), who “cares” for the welfare of all the members of her family, optimally allocates household resources among its members.

    However, we must clarify that the matriarch does not dictate because she is the most altruistic or caring member of the family. She dictates because she has the power to do so.

    The Mosuo tribe is a clear example of how gender roles are in fact
    “socially ascribed.” Women’s biological function of childbearing has been traditionally used as an argument for the “natural” assignment of household responsibilities to women. Feminist economists argue, however, that only childbearing is biologically restricted to women, while childrearing and household work is socially determined.

    Child rearing
    In the Mosuo society, men participate in childrearing as uncles and brothers, but do little else. Surely, the assignment of productive work to women, including physical labor, has less to do with biological functions, and more to do with social structure.

    One wonders how it is that the dominated gender, in this case the men, are not exploited or overworked. It is almost as if the men are being “compensated” for their disempowerment, and this benevolent treatment of men is probably what keeps them from overthrowing the matriarch.

    In addition, this structure conditions men to depend completely on women in all aspects of survival. There is simply no incentive for the men to challenge their existing way of life.

    This bears some similarities in the male-dominated households many of us are more familiar with. When women are less educated, and have less opportunities to financially support themselves and their children, they are entirely dependent on their husbands for survival. Unlike the benevolent treatment of men in the Mosuo tribe, however, these women work long hours and take on great responsibilities – often without recognition that what they do is “real work.” Although this breeds discontent, the lack of alternatives for these women and the threat of violence, allow this power structure to thrive.

    Alternative structure
    More than just a feminist fantasy, the survival of a culture with a seemingly impossible setup teaches us an important lesson: that an alternative social structure can exist. A world where no man rules, no man makes important decisions, no man inherits property, and no man works, is not just a myth.

    Contrary to fears raised by those who hesitate to empower women, society need not fall apart when women have control. In fact, the female-dominated society of Mosuo exists in love and harmony – a stark contrast to male-dominated societies that exist in violence and hate. The Mosuo people have successfully averted many social problems. As a result, their language has no words for war, murder or rape.

    Although the Mosuo experience is certainly far from the ideal of gender equality, it shows that there is nothing natural or inevitable about gender biases. A bias for one or the other is influenced by power relations and social roles, not biology. If we truly believe that every individual – regardless of race, ethnicity or gender – is entitled to the same privileges and benefits development has to offer, we must seek to transform the very structures that perpetuate and reinforce inequalities.

    The good news is that gender relations have been changing with the times. Gone were the days when educating girls was believed to be a waste, since they will only marry and become housewives.

    Gone were the days when it was unthinkable for a woman to vote. By recognizing that social roles can change, given the proper incentives, we have overcome the first hurdle in the struggle for gender equality.


  6. Bunsawik

    Palaminco grabe imong ing research…Marake ateng aelaman…Pandugang lang ang husband kung inde i suportan anang asawa very slim ang chance nga maging succesful manda….Kung sa Biblical point of view durong kaimportante nga ateng Ginoo agpakilala kanaten bilang Father isara sa maliag ikon source or provider…Animan importante sa tatay talaga mi anang pangabui…Ig kung mag asawa ren ngani ang lalaki mi ang babae they become one animan siguro importante ang “teamwork” ang mag asawa para maging succesful andang marriage…Ang author ang marriage si God animan tana ag pili ra instrumento nga babae para ibata ateng Ginoo….. God bless!!!Durong katinlong arampangen!!!


  7. palaminco

    Agree ako dian Bunsawik – ang Dios ang ag-imbento ang marriage. Ig para kanaken, he intended it to be a partnership and between husband and wife. Tenged nga dan partnership, kaministiran enged i teamwork kanandang darwa katabid ang mga bata kung magbabael den ngani.
    Sa isarang patriarchal society nga pareho kanaten, ang lalaki maman manda ang automatic nga agaluang lider ang pamilya tenged nga tana maman ang mabaskeg, maiseg, ig decisive. Ig clearly defined ang role ang babai sa pag-epet ang mga bata ig mga urubraen sa balay.
    Pero sa mga timpong dia nga ang mga babai aga-trabaho ron sa lua ig kung kaisan (kung beken i kadangmitan) mas mabael pa anang ing kikita sa anang asawa. Sa tuladiang situasyon, aging obligasyon don da i ang lalaki nga mag-epet ang bata, magpamunak i lampin, ig iba pang trabaho sa balay. In extreme cases, kung mas mabael anang ing kikita ang babai, agakaron tana leverage nga maman den ang aga-dumara ang pamalaybalay laypa kung ang lalaki medyo mababa leba.
    Pero para kanaken, kada-isara kananda me anang defined roles enged sa seled ang balay. Kung ang lalaki in-charge sa mga repairs sa balay ig iba pang trabahong mabegat, ara rason para magtabang tana pa pangugas i platon, indi ba? Otherwise, dapat ang babai magtabang da sa mga trabahong dato para talagang “equal” ang distribution i ang mga obra sa balay.
    Ako aga-paret nga ang marriage is a partnership and that leadership is shared between husband and wife. Dia aga dipindir kung anong klasing situasyon sa seled ang balay ig kung anong klasing disisyon ang dapat buaten.
    God Bless ig Merry Christmas sa tanan!!!


  8. Bunsawik

    Korek ka dyan Palaminks!!Pwede kaw gali mag guest speaker example sa mga “Marriage Encounter”…Pera imong professional fee HaeHaeHae…Juks lang..Aelaman mo matinlo kita ra gali ag arampang i mga topic nga kundia. Mga bagay bagay nga tenged sa ateng pangabui sa adlaw adlaw ig ka share ta ateng mga experiences nga akatataw i sulosyon kung pasamuro ta ma solvar ateng mga na encounter na mga problema sa adlaw adlaw…Tnx Banz sa forum nga kundia!!!!


  9. palaminco

    Dan maman akeng problema, nong. Ako baya indi kaelam ag limeg, animan ingsusulat ko ron lamang akeng maliag-ikon, hae hae hae.

    BTW, kung mi aliag ag miembro ang Mosuo Tribe digi sa Cuyopress, pag-register kamo lamang kanaken, barato lamang ang placement fee mi discount pa basta katabid ako, hae hae hae!!!



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